I have yet to read China Mieville’s The City and The City as I’ve been bogged down getting through Stephen KIng’s The Stand, a long-promised read (the 1400 page version). I make the admission in order to clarify that I am not making a judgement on China’s award-winning book. I love his other books mainly because of the literary style of his writing, and it shouts at me from the bookcase to be read.
It is fascinating through how doubt has been levelled at The City and The City as to whether it is science fiction or just a damn good crime story with a two city setting along with a ‘fantastical’ element. This opinion is set in the Guardian review pages by Alison Flood. She also says that China isn’t bothered what people think and that as far as he is concerned all his writiing is science fiction. Consider that China’s The City and The City has recently won awards by people who know their science fiction – the Arthur C Clarke Award and – it is nominated for the Hugo Award for science fiction novels.
China says: ‘ “What I don’t want to do is disavow the fantastic tradition I come from. This is a book from within the fantasy tradition, which hopefully can also be a perfectly faithful crime book – and a good book.”
Maybe it is pure crime or crime with fantasy, but is it science fiction? China says such discussions are silly but that’s a cop out.
What a contrast then to Margaret Atwood who shouts that NONE of her writing is science fiction even though most of us would consider stories like Oryx and Crake, set in the future with GM humanoids a yes for a SF genre. I explore her attitude and look at classical definitions of science fiction in Kalkion at this link
http://kalkion.com/column/it-science-…
Now I will have to rush the last 250 pages of The Stand so I can judge China’s latest for myself.
I always thought of science fiction as science fact taken to the next level. If you can’t imagine it becoming a reality then what is the point. When it is something that could not evolve into a reality then it is fantasy.
Hi Maria, it is easy to distinguish between SF and fantasy when the latter is dragons and fairies. In China’s book we have an intriguing situation where two cities occupy the same physical space but the occupants somehow deny the existence of the ‘other’ city. This could be like parallel universes, which is in the realms of quantum physics and so science fiction. Or in a kind of fairyland fantasy which isn’t. I’ve read the first few pages which reads as a good crime fiction and nothing weird. I’ll have to finish it to see if it transcends what you consider to be the possible.
BTW congrats on the Hubble’s 20th birthday!
To me, belief in the possibility of GM humanoids is little different to believing in fairies. People claim to have seen the latter. Not only that but fairies, of whatever ‘breed’ are part of lore. If someone can conjure up yarns about humanoids then, through imagination, people can dream up ways to make them possible, but the ‘science’ hinted at is surely in the realms of fantasy – not fact. That is until proof can be demonstrated. I consider it more likely for a fairy to be sitting on my shoulder! But then, had the fairy been developed from tinkering with DNA, or the result of a freak of nature?
The stuff of lore surely goes back to pre-history. Much lies buried in the collective unconscious from which dragons breath fire and fairies take wing. The past inspires both present and future. Possibilities take wing in imagination — fantasy or science fiction? If science fiction does not develop into fact then it will be forever fantasy. Unless there are strong grounds to claim otherwise fiction is fiction — the outpouring of imagination however much fact may be involved and as such remains fantasy.
Well that is my tuppence worth! What makes my mind boggle is that anyone can sit down and read such lengthy books! Not only that, but why a serious debate over what is what in fiction genre. No wonder manuscripts that don’t fall easily into artificial categories are likely to be dismissed by publishers.
Hi Geoff, I’ll be really interested to hear what you think of The City & The City when you’ve finished it.
As you likely know, one of the big reasons why I enjoy being associated with a prize like the Clarke Award is the varied and passionate debate it can inspire about my favourite genre. I love the conversation, and wherever you end up filing the book on your own taxonomic shelf I hope you really enjoy it because I think this book is great.
That said, i agree with the possible science fictional outline you’ve given above but won’t go into more detail here because you still have the actual book to look forward to.
Gladys, just to pick up on your point about artificial categories, I think that a book like The City & The City proves that publishers are very much looking to publish and promote works that cross over or fall between easily assigned types. It’s certainly my experience that publishers are always looking for the new and different. As someone very much a part of the publishing industry as it were, but also distinct from it and viewing it from a very particular angle, I’m often struck by how some authors (especially those still striving to be published) will use this kind of thought to justify why their book has been rejected.
I’d say that it’s rather the case that genuinely different books are often taken up, although equally publishers are people and might very well recognise a book for its distinctiveness but simply feel its not for them. Far too often though what authors consider an excellently uncatergorisable work is far too often a mismatching of lots of easily recognisable disparate elements.
Where I think a book like The City & The City succeeds is in its synthesis. It is very much a crime novel, but it is also very much more than that and a great example of using genre tropes to transcend the boundaries of our habit for categorisation
RE: ‘I’m often struck by how some authors (especially those still striving to be published) will use this kind of thought to justify why their book has been rejected.’
Well, since you are part of the publishing industry, you should know, Mr Hunter. But don’t you think you just might be a little biased?
Speaking for myself, two of my novels are completely different. At least they were when they were written just a few years ago. And that is not just my opinion.
I have never considered my work to be excellent. But, over the past few years, people who know about books, such as Michael Allen (Grumpy Old Bookman blog), author, reviewer, critic; Andy O’Hara, author and editor The Jimston Journal; Geoff Nelder – whom you know; reviewer at the Westmorland Gazette; reviewer at Cumbria Lake District magazine, and others, seem to think my books worth reading. However, the fact that no ‘known’ agent or publisher has been prepared to give my writing a chance (after years of effort) has convinced me it is time to give up trying.
As regards publishers, you are quite right when you say: ‘publishers are people and might very well recognise a book for its distinctiveness but simply feel it’s not for them.’
Such has been said of these two novels as mentioned above. Just a way of saying that the book will not generate enough sales.
However, although my work may not be regarded as ‘published’ by such as yourself, my books are available in print and can also be borrowed or ordered for borrowing, in British libraries. I never cease to be amazed that folk actually enjoy what I write, especially men. Even so, the hassle and pain of the whole business (writing followed by publishing, promotion and marketing) and to then come across comments such as yours, convinces me that the effort is not worthwhile.
I do not normally write or read fantasy or scifi, so I cannot comment on The City and The City. I have read and enjoyed some of Geoff’s books, simply because they are a good read. Since I am not an expert (or well read) in any field maybe I should refrain from commenting.
Gladys, your views are always welcome. You have a wealth of experience many can learn from. I know what you mean. Escaping Reality is a humorous thriller, but I was told by several mainstream publlishers that such a mix didn’t fit into their, nor bookshop, categories. Luckily, a small press ventured his neck on it. Even so, Escaping Reality is difficult to place in libararies and bookshops ending up on the crime shelves. Or dafter, on the science fiction / fantasy shelf because of Exit, Pursued by a Bee.
I’m sure, Tom, that many or most new authors have had the ‘difficult-to-place’ reason for rejection and so we believe it. Like Gladys, I’m chuffed that publishers are accepting cross-genre well-written works irrespective of shelf-fitting. I anticipate pleasure in reading China’s book – his others resonate with the kind of literary fluidy I love. I am onto the 20th page and tingle already.
A good review of the whole category can be found on
http://bloodredpencil.blogspot.com/